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26 Nov, 2018 03:06 PM

What the hell is the matter with you KOS? The WWF ad taking over the front page is totally unacceptable.

Sheez, what's next? An ad between every sentence. Auto-play ads every 10 seconds replacing a diary one is trying to read?

  1. 1 Posted by indyada on 26 Nov, 2018 03:11 PM

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    Correction.... the damn crap WWF ad is on every damn page. WTF?

  2. Support Staff 2 Posted by Daily Kos Staff on 26 Nov, 2018 03:50 PM

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    Sorry that you find the ads annoying. But yes, the World Wildlife Fund will dominate our ad content in this way today and tomorrow.
    The video ad at the top of the page comes with a mute button. Is that not evident, or not working, for you?
    If you would prefer never to see ads on our site, then it is possible to subscribe for $40/year. See to sign up for one, and see if you have questions about the process.
    Thanks for your support of the mission of the site.

  3. 3 Posted by Franks Human on 26 Nov, 2018 06:30 PM

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    So this is DK's decision to allow this? The last time, I thought I had gathered from either the help desk interactions or comments from staff in threads that it was not. (Or that my ad-tracker controlled the ads/out of site's control.)

    This is a disability accessibility issue, which had been shared and discussed on this site during WWF's last ad buy of this type. While some people are mildly inconvenienced, others cannot read the site at all during these times.

    Last time I wrote to WWF and let them know that I was no longer supporting them because they are intentionally making sites inaccessible to disabled people. I now understand it is the site's choice. Thank you for clarifying that this time.

    (Subscription is something I have been considering, but only after the site becomes equitable for disabled users. Thank you.)

  4. 4 Posted by New Jersey Boy on 26 Nov, 2018 07:23 PM

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    The ad overlays the site's content.

  5. Support Staff 5 Posted by elfling on 26 Nov, 2018 07:52 PM

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    New Jersey Boy, it looks like you're getting some breakage there. If you can share the browser you're using, perhaps we can figure out the issue.

  6. Support Staff 6 Posted by Daily Kos Staff on 26 Nov, 2018 08:06 PM

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    Hello, and thanks for continuing to offer feedback here. I will certainly relay it to the people who can do something with it.

    For accessibility issues, I can't promise any improvements during the time of the ad campaign (which runs through tomorrow). Long term, it's also an important issue and our improvement on that score is not where we'd like to get it to be.

    elfling beat me to making the other request.

    Thanks for your help in making the site better.

  7. 7 Posted by New Jersey Boy on 26 Nov, 2018 08:31 PM

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    Internet explorer. Microsoft Edge.

  8. 8 Posted by fourthcornerman on 26 Nov, 2018 09:12 PM

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    "Dominate ad content" and "dominate the entire page" are two different concepts and mutually exclusive. When the main webpage is a POP-UP AD and the advertisement fills the whole screen behind and partially atop the main web page, that's a complete sell-out to the advertiser and a "you don't count" to the viewer. So are you guys going to now follow the Facebook/Twitter/Instagram "our customer is our product" philosophy?
    Thanks for telling me this abomination will last the next two days. I'll go play video games till then. You can also tell WWF this stunt tends to make me resent wildlife advocates.

  9. 9 Posted by bakeneko on 26 Nov, 2018 09:30 PM

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    OK, I see the issue I am describing is addressed in this other Help Desk thread:

    Sorry for the waste of space, hope the link will help others who missed it.

  10. Support Staff 10 Posted by elfling on 26 Nov, 2018 09:33 PM

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    Franks Human - we've done some accessibility testing with this ad, but it would be helpful if you can be extremely specific about the issue you are having. I realize it gets tedious if you think you've said it before, but specific examples work best for making the case to everyone who needs to hear it.

  11. 11 Posted by New Jersey Boy on 26 Nov, 2018 11:46 PM

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    "Well it was a total disaster last time we did it, so we're doing it again."

    People are threatening to boycott your advertiser. Again.

    Is Chuck Schumer moonlighting at the Daily Kos P.R. Dept.?

  12. 12 Posted by Richard Dodson ... on 27 Nov, 2018 12:44 AM

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    I can't use the site with this ad taking over the whole page. It shrinks the type, and the ad wan't go away even after I watch it, and blocks content or pushes it off the page, especially when using a smaller window. When I click over and see this ad, I just go elsewhere. There are plenty of good progressive sites to get good info from. They may have ads as well, but nothing this infuriating. I don't mind relevant ads, but this is a monstrosity. I'm done until this ad is gone, and even then, I'm finding some other worthy sites I hadn't bothered to explore as I'm pretty committed to KOS - but this is just an awful decision and will drive me away you keep using this form of advertising. There are other ways to connect us to products and resources. Anyway - just yuck!

  13. 13 Posted by Franks Human on 27 Nov, 2018 01:09 AM

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    Oh, no. I just wrote a long reply, elfling, but it seems to be lost. I hit comment, it seemed to publish, but it's not here now.

    I can't go through all that again. Maybe it'll show up.

  14. 14 Posted by Franks Human on 27 Nov, 2018 01:23 AM

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    It seems to be gone. I logged out and back in hoping it would show up.

    I just can't do this again. I literally wrote about an 8 paragraph explanation and it's gone.

  15. 15 Posted by Franks Human on 27 Nov, 2018 01:29 AM

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    Okay, I hit the back key about 12 times. Here is some version of the unsubmitted comment (sorry, longer than 8 paragraphs).

    What these ads are designed to do they do, which constitutes an accessibility problem. For me, even at work with my two 24" screens, this ad will shrink and crowd the text of your site below the levels that I am able to read for more than a few seconds without pain. So reading any page that the ad is on requires either a lot of CONTINUAL work (resizing the browser, putting things over the moving video if it doesn't stop, which this one won't, and it's placed right in the way of the navigation tools)) and then trying to read the now-small text is painful, if I can read it at all.

     So I have to make my browsers (on Windows/Mac, doesn't matter) so small I can't access this site without a lot of physical pain. It's a combination of visual overcrowding, unrelenting attention-seeking "motion," and crowding or shrinking the text. And if I do manage to read a bit, my eye strain makes them water up and I can't read for long.... Then the headaches begin.

    But this isn't about me. Take the word "disability" out of my statement above (and now I'm speaking from my decades experience working with people with disabilities and assistive tech): In issues like this people are only "disabled" by other people's design. We all exist on a range of physical types/design types, and this is clearly impacting a lot of people in a differentiated way whose eyes/vision is what I call "not within the acceptable visual range."

    I can identify how these things fall into "accessibility" issues due to my professional experience, and the fact that I do nothing else in my life now except try to explain these things over and over again. People are telling you that their access is being denied. That's not just an annoyance or an inconvenience. That stops us from having equal access to the site. Some of us can't read at all because of the shrunken text, or because videos are covering the places we need to see in order to navigate, or the "moving video" which wipes out the non-moving (text) around it, or the visual overcrowding. All of that is by design.

    And I posit that impacts older people more than younger people, and people with some types of vision more than others because I understand that these people are human. That's "normal" eyesight.

    I understand you have to keep revenue coming in, but how many people don't do what I'm doing, and just leave? Just stop coming back? Was this ad worth that?

    I don't know if that helped at all, but I have to bow out for now. I realize that you wrote:

    "but specific examples work best for making the case to everyone who needs to hear it."

    I don't know whether I've done that or not.

    Go read my Sunday KosAbility post. I put my all into that, I think I explained that problem well, but I realize that it isn't going to do any good unless someone somewhere takes the brave step of realizing that we're designing for a small part of the human population as if that's "right."

    I think responding as if the problem is "in the trees," such as this or that browser/device combo, is understandable (and necessary, of course); but zoom out to see the forest: These ads are designed to muck up every environment they enter in some attention grabbing fashion that you as insiders can understand in ways I cannot. I don't know what the technical differences are between these ads and others, but you must know there is something inherently different about what they do/are designed to do, so THAT is what your sales team should reject on moral/ethical grounds in the future.

    Today I have not read anyone else's diaries. I've checked mine, and then given up. These ads, however they are technically different, do not help your website in the long run.

    People with disabilities represent somewhere around 19-33% of the US population (I'm not sure whom to trust on this, thus the wide range.) Older people are quite numerous, too. To me this is an accessibility issue, as described by Thurgood Marshall when he said, "Equal means getting the same things, at the same time, in the same place." Your staff commented above that there may not be anything that can be done while this ad is running. So I don't have equal access while this ad is running.

    I'm turning this into a moral/ethical issue because of what this site is supposed to mean, is supposed to be about. I came here, after reading since around 2004-5, because I wanted to make a difference, wanted to contribute, and I find myself doing nothing but reacting to ableist bullshit comments, ableist attitudes, and then this sort of thing. I don't do this, or bring these things up, just for me, but because there are a lot of vulnerable people in this world and they need...

    To be able to participate on this site in equal fashion.

    I'm sorry this accessibility issue falling on the technical staff's shoulders.

  16. 16 Posted by New Jersey Boy on 27 Nov, 2018 02:27 AM

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    Can "FranksHuman" gat an Ad Block as the internet equivalent of the "handicapped" parking space?

    If not contact me directly, and I will provide him an "Ad-Free" subscription as a gift.

    I, myself would like to patronize advertisers that support Daily Kos, so prefer not to "subscribe to block ads."

    This WWF situation is not good. It makes the decision to subscribe to DK feel like extortion to escape from their ads.

    The result may be shutting supporters off from ads they should see. Including WWF.

  17. 17 Posted by Franks Human on 27 Nov, 2018 03:15 AM

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    New Jersey Boy, I appreciate the thought, and thank you.

    I also don't wish to have an ad-blocker as I wish for news sites to have revenue, but I also--again, thank you--don't wish to have a subscription. My purpose for discussing this with them is not just for me. If I don't see ads, then I can't know what the trends are, such as this. Mainly, though, I don't wish to subscribe if other people have to put up with this sort of thing.

    I appreciate the thought, though. Thank you.

  18. 18 Posted by Orcas George on 27 Nov, 2018 05:58 AM

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    Auto playing videos makes it impossible to use the site for people who have data caps, which is most people who are not wealthy. This seems counter to the goals of creating more and better Democrats.

  19. 19 Posted by bakeneko on 17 Dec, 2018 12:06 AM

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    Can you please close this Ticket?

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