My Feedback on the New Site(s) - Desktop / Mobile

AtlantaProg's Avatar

AtlantaProg

15 Jul, 2020 10:12 PM

Hello Kossak Support !!

Thank you for all the hard work you do, and for reading all the feed back from us knuckleheads out here with our thousands of "Opinions" that we give ... :)

I love the new site overall. I know a LOT of work went into that. I have done business websites - and I know the complexities, trust me.

Here are a couple of thoughts on the Desktop Site now that I have spent a few days playing: I imagine others have hit these items before me...
- I Really, Really would love to see time/date stamps on each article/post. There is clearly the space to add that.
- I do not (yet?) understand the rationale for how/where stories are posted on the front page. There appear to be columns - perhaps headers above the columns would be helpful? "News" "Community" "Recent" or what have you. (Note - I do see headers farther down...)
- Would LOVE to have a "Preview on Hover" for each post - Perhaps the first paragraph or two - so when scanning through, the user can quickly decide of that article is the one they want to open at that moment.
- User specific customization? Filtering by user log on? I like articles about Science for example - would be great to see that option or something like it.

Mobile thoughts:
Okay, this feed back is limited, and is derived from the "old" style and the few glimpses I have had on the "new" version:
- I LIKED that the old site had the three buttons on top - Main, Recommended and Recent. Simple. Easy. Clear.
- I WISH it allowed other options to be accessed easier with some kind of drop down, 3 dot/3-line button.
** NOTE: The lack of the header line (with the log-in/log-out link) on portrait view still has not been fixed = why is that?
- NEW Version: I have only been allowed to see that one a couple of times, then my Android device resets to the older version.
- I LIKE that I have a menu now. But again, Time/Date stamps are important and should be added.
- The ability on BOTH platforms to "filter" the content (customization by user...?). - that would be nice.

That is all for now. Thank you for reading. Hope you are safe and healthy where ever you are.

-Rhys - Atlanta, GA.

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by Daily Kos Staff on 16 Jul, 2020 06:23 PM

    Daily Kos Staff's Avatar

    Hello, and thanks for your specific feedback. I appreciate your acknowledgement of the complexity of the whole undertaking.

    Your suggestions are in line with the most common observations made to date. I can reply to some of them here; the other matters will be addressed one way or another over time.

    Re: Date/Timestamps:
    I can appreciate the wish; I'll have to look up the complete rationale. I will note, however, there are a few reasons for pulling them (and other story display features) off of the FP. One is to speed up load time, which was really very slow with all the information that FP stories included. The other is to encourage people to click through to stories rather than linger on the FP.

    It's also true that eventually we hope to be able to increase the "hang time" in a judicious way for major stories that need more prominence for a longer period of time. That sort of customization is still in development. In that case, having the date/timestamp might prove to be less constructive.

    Re: Headers
    Sections of the new FP in the desktop view, with a few exceptions, do carry headers. The very top of the page (the substitute for the old "front page blog") does not, and the Civiqs section doesn't exactly, and the Activism section (with the petitions) doesn't. Otherwise, the others do.

    It might help to note that the "news" sections are now exclusively Staff-written posts, while the "community stories" sections do NOT have Staff-written content. Trending, DK Liberation League, and DK Elections are the only two places where you may see a mixture of staff and community posts, though for the latter two Staff-written content will likely predominate.

    The labels here carry forward and make more prominent the "News, Community, Action" distinctions that were otherwise rather hidden within the dropdowns on the old Front Page. The three dropdowns are still on the individual story pages and group blog pages, however, and will be for a while.

    Re: Preview on Hover
    There's been some discussion of that feature. It may return; it's not that difficult to engineer. Of course, it's not practically available for touchscreen devices, so there's that to consider also.

    Re: User Customization
    There may be some ways to do that involving tweaks to the new design. But there is already a strategy in place that may provide what you're seeking. It's the "Follow" feature, which you can use to make sure that a post by any individual, tag, or group you "follow" is put into your "stream." The "follow" option is turned on by clicking a link on that entity's page, which will look different depending on the page styling. (For a tag, the link is a "follow tag" button; for individuals and groups, the link is "follow" plus a heart icon.) You can access your individual stream via the link "My Activity Stream" in the user dropdown. Try it and see what you think.

    The mobile nav bar ticket should have been addressed already. Are you still not seeing it? It may be necessary to clear your cache for it to display properly.

    Thanks for your input. I hope this reply is helpful.

    We appreciate your support of the site.

  2. 2 Posted by AtlantaProg on 16 Jul, 2020 07:27 PM

    AtlantaProg's Avatar
    Hi -

    That was a lot detail. Clear rationale on all but one item. Thank you. 

    That one item I simply have to disagree with is the time/date stamp. You guys seem to have closed the debate on this one and I'm so disappointed about this. 

    DK is in many ways, a news site. Every news site of which I aware has a time date stamp on each article. 

    It is a fundamental tool in the context of any story; knowing when it was first posted, or updated.

    Let the users, viewers decide which stories are relevant to them - the headlines, pictures, placement AND the timestamp are all crucial meta-data for these decisions. 

    Hope I can appeal this successfully. 

    -Rhys
    Atlanta, GA


    Sent from my BlackBerry Smart Device

    From: [email blocked]
    Sent: July 16, 2020 14:23
    To: [email blocked]
    Subject: Re: My Feedback on the New Site(s) - Desktop / Mobile [DK 5 - Daily Kos Beta: Bugs #1011]

    #ssc142884 pre{width: 92%;margin: 10px 2%;padding: 5px 2%;background: rgb(239, 239, 239);border: 1px solid rgb(214, 214, 214);}#ssc142884 blockquote{margin-left: 0;padding-left: 1em;border-left: 5px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);}

    // Please reply above this line
    ==================================================

    From: Daily Kos Staff (Support staff)

    Hello, and thanks for your specific feedback. I appreciate your acknowledgement of the complexity of the whole undertaking.

    Your suggestions are in line with the most common observations made to date. I can reply to some of them here; the other matters will be addressed one way or another over time.

    Re: Date/Timestamps:
    I can appreciate the wish; I'll have to look up the complete rationale. I will note, however, there are a few reasons for pulling them (and other story display features) off of the FP. One is to speed up load time, which was really very slow with all the information that FP stories included. The other is to encourage people to click through to stories rather than linger on the FP.

    It's also true that eventually we hope to be able to increase the "hang time" in a judicious way for major stories that need more prominence for a longer period of time. That sort of customization is still in development. In that case, having the date/timestamp might prove to be less constructive.

    Re: Headers
    Sections of the new FP in the desktop view, with a few exceptions, do carry headers. The very top of the page (the substitute for the old "front page blog") does not, and the Civiqs section doesn't exactly, and the Activism section (with the petitions) doesn't. Otherwise, the others do.

    It might help to note that the "news" sections are now exclusively Staff-written posts, while the "community stories" sections do NOT have Staff-written content. Trending, DK Liberation League, and DK Elections are the only two places where you may see a mixture of staff and community posts, though for the latter two Staff-written content will likely predominate.

    The labels here carry forward and make more prominent the "News, Community, Action" distinctions that were otherwise rather hidden within the dropdowns on the old Front Page. The three dropdowns are still on the individual story pages and group blog pages, however, and will be for a while.

    Re: Preview on Hover
    There's been some discussion of that feature. It may return; it's not that difficult to engineer. Of course, it's not practically available for touchscreen devices, so there's that to consider also.

    Re: User Customization
    There may be some ways to do that involving tweaks to the new design. But there is already a strategy in place that may provide what you're seeking. It's the "Follow" feature, which you can use to make sure that a post by any individual, tag, or group you "follow" is put into your "stream." The "follow" option is turned on by clicking a link on that entity's page, which will look different depending on the page styling. (For a tag, the link is a "follow tag" button; for individuals and groups, the link is "follow" plus a heart icon.) You can access your individual stream via the link "My Activity Stream" in the user dropdown. Try it and see what you think.

    The mobile nav bar ticket should have been addressed already. Are you still not seeing it? It may be necessary to clear your cache for it to display properly.

    Thanks for your input. I hope this reply is helpful.

    We appreciate your support of the site.

    On Wed, Jul 15 at 03:12 PM PDT, AtlantaProg wrote:

    Hello Kossak Support !!

    Thank you for all the hard work you do, and for reading all the feed back from us knuckleheads out here with our thousands of "Opinions" that we give ... :)

    I love the new site overall. I know a LOT of work went into that. I have done business websites - and I know the complexities, trust me.

    Here are a couple of thoughts on the Desktop Site now that I have spent a few days playing: I imagine others have hit these items before me...
    - I Really, Really would love to see time/date stamps on each article/post. There is clearly the space to add that.
    - I do not (yet?) understand the rationale for how/where stories are posted on the front page. There appear to be columns - perhaps headers above the columns would be helpful? "News" "Community" "Recent" or what have you. (Note - I do see headers farther down...)
    - Would LOVE to have a "Preview on Hover" for each post - Perhaps the first paragraph or two - so when scanning through, the user can quickly decide of that article is the one they want to open at that moment.
    - User specific customization? Filtering by user log on? I like articles about Science for example - would be great to see that option or something like it.

    Mobile thoughts:
    Okay, this feed back is limited, and is derived from the "old" style and the few glimpses I have had on the "new" version:
    - I LIKED that the old site had the three buttons on top - Main, Recommended and Recent. Simple. Easy. Clear.
    - I WISH it allowed other options to be accessed easier with some kind of drop down, 3 dot/3-line button.
    ** NOTE: The lack of the header line (with the log-in/log-out link) on portrait view still has not been fixed = why is that?
    - NEW Version: I have only been allowed to see that one a couple of times, then my Android device resets to the older version.
    - I LIKE that I have a menu now. But again, Time/Date stamps are important and should be added.
    - The ability on BOTH platforms to "filter" the content (customization by user...?). - that would be nice.

    That is all for now. Thank you for reading. Hope you are safe and healthy where ever you are.

    -Rhys - Atlanta, GA.

    Having trouble reading this? View this discussion online: My Feedback on the New Site(s) - Desktop / Mobile.

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  3. Support Staff 3 Posted by Daily Kos Staff on 16 Jul, 2020 08:04 PM

    Daily Kos Staff's Avatar

    Appreciate your feedback, for sure. I'm not privy myself to the design decisions, so I don't honestly know how firmly the door has been closed on that matter--and perhaps I overstated the finality of it at this moment.
    The discussion is not at an end, so please feel free also to comment on stories on the site related to the FP design. I encourage that in part because there you can enter into dialogue with other site members on the topic, leading to a more thorough consideration of the pros and cons.

  4. Daily Kos Staff closed this discussion on 16 Jul, 2020 08:04 PM.

  5. Daily Kos Staff re-opened this discussion on 16 Jul, 2020 08:41 PM

  6. Support Staff 4 Posted by Daily Kos Staff on 16 Jul, 2020 08:41 PM

    Daily Kos Staff's Avatar

    And behold: I had indeed missed this comment by Jason Libsch, our VP of Product, a few days back.
    In it he writes:

    As for the absence of recommended counts, comment counts, and publication times, the idea was to start simple. We will run experiments in the future where we try putting these back to see how usership patterns change.

    Maybe this will be some reassurance; it's certainly more authoritative.

  7. 5 Posted by AtlantaProg on 21 Jul, 2020 07:22 AM

    AtlantaProg's Avatar

    Hi - checking back in.

    So... been seeing a LOT of unhappy diaries about the new site. I have yet to see a glowing one - or a positive one frankly. But folks DO like to complain, right?

    I'll add this to my initial comments on the new site:
    - I posted a diary recently - it was no where to be seen on the new desktop site. I could not find it.

    Look - my suggestion is - roll this thing back and re-think for a bit. Maybe just put out a poll for a few days - see what folks think?

    Seems like lots of folks are unhappy - this is different than the last changeover so far as I recall.

    I see that lots of folks, like me, want to see "recent" grouping - (that is where I could see my diaries before...).

    Lost of folks seem to agree with me on the time date too.

    Again - I get there is a LOT of work here, really. But time for a reset in my humble opinion...

    Thanks for reading.

  8. 6 Posted by AtlantaProg on 23 Jul, 2020 11:01 PM

    AtlantaProg's Avatar

    Hello -

    Here is more feed back.

    I just posted a diary.

    It cannot be found on the new page. It is not in any section that I can see.

    (I am assuming I could search for it ... )

    Cant you just have a "RECENT" section that is chronological?

    No one can see my post -

  9. Support Staff 7 Posted by Daily Kos Staff on 07 Aug, 2020 08:29 PM

    Daily Kos Staff's Avatar

    Hello again.

    Thanks for your additional comments; apologies for such a delay in getting back to you about them.

    I'd like to provide an update on a couple of points you raise. First, the new FP design is still undergoing assessment; we've not closed the door to additional revisions. More than that would not be fair to say.

    Second, there are a couple of reasons why it might not be easy to find a new Community story on the Front Page, though one of them isn't relevant in this case. Namely: A story that was started so long ago that its story number is stale compared to recent posts won't get picked up either by the old FP for the Recent Stories sidebar or the new FP Community Stories section.

    But the other source of confusion may arise from the different organizing principle at work on the new Front Page regarding Community-written stories. On the old Front Page, the Recent Stories sidebar would contain a mixture of posts, some written by staff and some by community writers. (That happens because the staff writers "post ahead," in effect, to get the stories up and available to the readership before there is a spot open for it on the Front Page.)

    On the new Front Page, ONLY stories that are written by Community writers appear under the Latest Community Stories section heading. The one on the far left of the top row is the newest--that is, they're loaded in reverse chronological order.

    In contrast, the stories in the More Recent News section are exclusively by Staff writers, whether folks in Editorial or the Trending News Team or non-editorial staff, e.g. the recent posts about the Front Page that Jason Libsch and elfling have written.

    The new "Front Page" section that stands in for the old center-of-the-blog page--at the very top of the page--does still include posts Staff and Community writers, but they are now pulled from the Community Stories sections and from the More Recent News section.

    Writing this explanation to you now suggests that we might want to make some of this logic more transparent. We'll see what we can do about it.

    My main point for now is to say that more changes may still come to pass.

    Thanks again for your input and for your investment in the success of the site.

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